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TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally!

As I prepare to rebuild the home theater at our house, I thought it was time to finally write the blog entry I've been promising myself (and a few others) regarding TiVo vs. Microsoft Media Center Edition (MCE) based Pc's.

Robert Scoble has been talking up the forthcoming MCE 2005 release of software and systems that are coming around towards the end of this year.  Since Robert has not had the pleasure (?) of working with an MCE system , perhaps this will prepare him for what is coming.

TiVo units have been around for many years now, and are pretty much unchanged from when they were first introduced.  Yes, they have significantly more storage, and with the latest upgrades, you can play audio and show pictures from your PC, but at the core, it's still a Linux based box running on minimal hardware with a user interface that pretty much anyone can figure out.

Let's review my most recent user experience with the last TiVo that I purchased.  I picked it up at Best Buy for somewhere around $300.  Brought it home, hooked it up and after maybe 30 minutes of trying to hide wires, had it up and running.  It took roughly another 1 hour  to finish configuring it and waiting for it to download and index all the information it needed.  At some point after that I changed it to use a wireless network connection by using an 802.11b USB adapter from Linksys.  The TiVo had no problem initially finding the network, but on occasion I found that it would have problems connecting and downloading its information.  After a while I changed the 'channel' that the wireless network worked on, and that problem pretty much went away.

Besides the initial set up, over the course of a year, I spent maybe 30 minutes fixing the wireless lan problem.  I cannot even remember if I had to physically turn the unit off (by pulling out the power cord - no power switch) during that whole time.  In the time that I've owned TiVo's (pretty much since they came out), I've had to power off a unit due to a lockup maybe 5 times.

A MCE PC on the other hand is the height of PC technology.  Rather than running a small Linux core with some custom programming around it for the TiVo functionality, it runs Windows XP Professional on top of which is layered the MCE functionality.  The HP M390N that we use is a 3+ gigahertz Pentium 4 with 1 Gig of ram and 180 Gig of hard drive space.  The TiVo runs some processor, with some amount of disk space.  I'm not being stupid here - the point is that when it comes to the TiVo, you don't really care.  I'll come back to this.

The set up with the MCE system was pretty straightforward.  Besides the license agreement that took over 50 screens (seriously, it's that long and stupid) there isn't anything there that you as a PC user would find overly strange about it.

However, there is one caveat to this: The time was not set properly on the PC when it connected to the servers to obtain the program guide.  Rather than simply saying that the time wasn't set right, it returned an error message that said basically, an unknown error has occurred.  It took many hours of troubleshooting and finding forums that finally pointed me in the right direction.  Not a good start.

The user interface (the 10 foot interface if you will) is very usable.  Microsoft did a great job of providing functionality without cluttering things up too much.

Unlike the TiVo, the MCE system was to be at the center of our home theater.  All sound would be routed through it, CD's would be ripped to it, and DVD's would be played through it.  With the TiVo we had a Sony Dream System that provided sound and music handling - although eventually some music was handled through the TiVo).

Unfortunately, after the initial set up, things went downhill quickly.  From the start, we had stability problems.  The system would lock up at random or reboot on it's own.  At first I thought this was due to overheating, so the PC came out of the cabinet to give it better airflow.  That didn't help.  After about two weeks of this, the machine finally died hard.  It was returned to the store we I stupidly allowed them to service it rather than force them to swap it out (it was passed the return window).  We were told that it would take about 5 days for the machine to be repaired.  We were called a week later to be told that HP would have to repair the system and it would be sent out the next day.  It took a week to figure that out?  About a week after that we were called and told that the system had finally been sent out!  Finally, two weeks later, we get the system back.  Those major stability problems went away, so I was hopeful that we could at last enjoy the MCE PC and forget about the reliability problems.  For your info: The culprit in the customer service debacle was CompUSA (and of course HP).  I do not consider this part to be representitive of the problems that people might enounter, so while it soured my initial experience with the MCE PC, this by itself isn't a dealbreaker.

Finally, we have the machine back with a brand new motherboard and Pentium 4 chip.  Happy days are here again (finally), right?  Nope!  At random the machine would become  unresponsive, or we would have problem with sound.  After much trial and error, we found that rather than muting the sound when we turned the TV off, we could just turn the volume all the way down and that improved reliability.

The system would still however act strange on occasion, so we continued experimenting.  In the end we figured out that if we turned off 'live TV' by stopping it before we shut off the display, we solved most of the stability problems.

But not all of them.  To this day, our screaming fast 3 Gig P4 still occasionally stumbles (defragged every night, doncha know), and every now and then it drives me to reboot it.

I won't even get into the MCE PC's inability to receive channel 2 from Comcast.

Watching DVDs can be horrible.  We have the MCE PC connected to a widescreen display through a VGA connector.  The PC knows it's a wide screen display, but when we go to play widescreen movies on the widescreen display, they end up being about 1/4 the height of the display.  It's quite retarded.  Because of that, we no longer watch DVD's on the PC, but until this latest rebuild of the home theater, would use an XBox to show the movies (and folks, it's a great game machine, but the XBox is not a great DVD player!).

So, comparing the $2000 HP Media Center PC versus the $300 TiVo, what do I recommend?  Stick with the TiVo.  Despite having dime store hardware, the TiVo generally is more reliable, easier to use, and frequently more reponsive than the PC.  Some of the features of the MCE PC are really cool.  Having all of our CD's in there is nice.  Being able to create a DVD from a recorded show is nice, and having all the video editing features in there (in XP too of course) is nice.  But without the turnkey reliability that is expected of home theater equipment, it doesn't matter how nice it is - it will not be accepted by the buyers of this equipment.  I know that I have derailed many a potential buyer from getting an MCE PC.  I don't want to support them, and I don't want to have to explain why they have to reboot 'their TV' every week.

Microsoft - you are 50% of the way there to getting a good fight going in the living room.  However, if you don't significantly improve the MCE eXPerience, you will get booted out by one of the up and comers, and will have lost yet another huge market to someone willing to do it right.  I'm even looking forward to the Media Center extenders that are supposed to be coming out soon, but don't count on my trying to help you sell any more product to other users until I'm convinced that you, in conjunction with your hardware partners, have this stuff straightened out.  And the point above about it not mattering what kind of processor and memory that the TiVo unit has?  It works better, and cheaper, and I KNOW it has something slow and cheap in there, as opposed to the uber fast Intel proc that is heating up the room where the equipment is located.  This points out the obvious that the MCE PC is trying to do too much, and makes a very poor piece of home theater equipment.

Before anyone goes firing off salvos about how I'm expecting the MCE PC to do much more than the TiVo, you're right.  But the MCE PC is failing in regards to the basics.  The fact that we have all of our music ripped to it is nice, but given that it isn't so good as a PVR more than offsets the added advantages and features.

So there you have it, a long rambling piece on TiVo versus a Media Center Edition PC and why I still recommend TiVo.

posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:39 PM

Feedback

# EULAs for TV world 6/28/2004 3:05 PM Alex Moskalyuk Weblog

Eric G. Harrison desribes his experience setting up a Media Center PC. Apparently this project is not for the weak: Besides the license agreement that took over 50 screens (seriously, it's that long and stupid) there isn't anything there that...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 5:53 AM Jason

What's so bad about the Xbox as a DVD player?

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 7:04 AM Eric G. Harrison

What's so bad about the Xbox as a DVD player? It's not horrible, but it's not great. The two issues to me are:
1) The remote isn't shaped for human hands. I'm an average sized (American) guy, and the remote does it's best to jump out of my hands because it is so wide and curvy.
2) It doesn't support progressive scan for DVD's, so you're not going to get the best picture possible - assuming you have a display that can support it.

That's it. Nothing truly horrible. Perhaps the next gen Xbox will solve these problems.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 7:16 AM Greg Hurlman

I wouldn't count on the Xbox2 having a much better DVD player - it's basically for people like me - willing to give up quality in order to get a solid DVD player as a $20 add-on.

The thinking was (and, I imagine, still is) that if you want progressive scan, etc, then you probably have both the money and high quality bar to have a dedicated DVD player.

That said, if I've got $2000 to spend on a toy, I'd keep my TiVo and pick up a Mac.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 7:32 AM Eric G. Harrison

Greg, bit of a double meaning there, huh? :)

Yeah, the purchase of the MCE PC was a bit of a lark, but believe it or not, it was my girlfriend that insisted on having it!

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 9:02 AM Paul Robichaux

Good review, Eric. Synchronicity is a powerful thing; I saw your review right before I posted mine :)

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 9:27 AM Eric G. Harrison

Everyone should go read Paul's review over at his site: http://www.robichaux.net/blog. It covers more of the functionality of the MCE units, as opposed to the problems that I focused on.

I will say that the 'showing picture slideshows while playing music' is *very* cool. When we have friends over we'll turn on the Jimmy Buffet music and show a slideshow of the hundreds of pictures that we have of Buffet concerts. Only a few of which contain pictures of me! I went to a Buffet concert once. Once.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 10:00 AM Perbix

I have a TIVO and love it, It does all we need to do, and when used in conjunction with a Mac and iTunes, the music and pictures are great. You also can combine that with the new Airport Express Wireless Base Station that allows you to stream you music playlists from iTunes (yes the Windows Version too). Combine that with playing Pictures on the TIVO from the Mac and you got Slide show with Music. TIVO $300, Airport Express $129.....

I just wish Apple and Tivo would get together and give us a true media hub....that would be fantastic....and much better/stable than anything built around Windows....

I am not saying it would be perfect, or as reliable as a streamlined and dedicated setup like TIVO alone, however I think the UNIX core of OSX combined with iTunes functionality, the iPod and TIVO would about be the killer Multi-media station...

# TiVo vs. Media Center Edition vs. INDUCE Act (IICA) 7/7/2004 11:09 AM The Importance of...

A couple of weeks ago Eric Harrison wrote a head-to-head comparison of Windows Media Center Edition and TiVo. (TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally!). TiVo won, partly because the original Windows machine had all sorts of defects, but...

# xBox Media Center (re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally!) 7/7/2004 10:13 AM nk

You should check out xBox Media Center, if you're willing to mod (hack) an xBox.

http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/

It's homebrew linux freeware that turns a modded xBox into a full-on media center that can play a good chunk of media formats out there (mpeg, aac, divx, etc) either from disc or from a hard drive. Can also play media streamed over an ethernet network. I'm also pretty sure that you can get a "High Def" output dongle for xBox that will do prog scan DVD playback, though you may need a mod to do this.

Mods aren't "cool" in M$'s eyes, but I don't think they're illegal, since it's your hardware and you can do what you want with it -- xBox is basically a really cheap Celeron box, right? Only tricky point is if M$ detects a modded box on xBox LIVE network, they'll ban you.

I have an xBox I bought solely to turn into an a/v media center (I have a lot of AAC music) , and am planning to do so after I move at the end of the month.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 10:16 AM Eric G. Harrison

Perbix - I woule *love* for Apple to dive in and take a shot at this market. A three way fight between Tivo, Microsoft and Apple would be a wonder to behold! Maybe having Apple and Tivo work together would be the way to do it, but I don't see Steve Jobs letting that happen. I think they'll create it from the ground up and do it the 'Apple Way' - if they were to do it at all.

One thing to note - Tivo doesn't support playing music and running slideshows at the same time. At least it didn't in the version I last used. Score one for the MCE PC!

# Mac Solution: El Gato 7/7/2004 10:40 AM Craig

No Apple box yet, but look at El Gato's EyeTV and EyeHome. Great stuff...

http://www.elgato.com/


# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 11:21 AM adam cornwell

seeing the attention detail apple has had with OS X for the most part, a media center-like app on there would probably be pretty impressive, but now that theyve had experience with DRM in iTunes etc etc it could end up being restricted a bit by that.. like difficult to use recorded files outside their specific softare and not being able to convert it to more useful, popular formats or something. always a way to get around it but still

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 11:42 AM joe schmoe

I am surprised no one has mentioned MythTV

http://www.mythtv.org

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 11:46 AM Some Guy

My Series 1 DirecTiVo contains nothing more than an aged PowerPC with 32MB memory:

processor : 0
cpu : IBM 403GCX
clock : 72MHz
revision : 20.1
bogomips : 71.88
machine : Teleworld Customer Device

total: used: free: shared: buffers: cached:
Mem: 28663808 28221440 442368 62705664 847872 6160384
Swap: 133165056 13987840 119177216
MemTotal: 27992 kB
MemFree: 432 kB
MemShared: 61236 kB
Buffers: 828 kB
Cached: 6016 kB
SwapTotal: 130044 kB
SwapFree: 116384 kB

I'm not sure what's in the Series2, but I know it's not magnitudes of power greater.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:03 PM Eric G. Harrison

Hello to all Slashdotters! Well, imagine my surprise at making the front page.

My Slashdot username is "NotClever" #635709.

I'm pleased to see that the server is withstanding the Slashdot effect. Phew!

Around 3000 visits in about 30 minutes.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:15 PM Mr J

There's no way I'd waist time trying to use one machine to do TV and be my home entertainment system.

I love my setup. I use TiVo in the living room and I use my PC to rip/store music/movies (media, you know). Then I have I wireless transmitter to send the video from my PC to the TV. I have a 6-way composite switch box to switch between TiVo, Playstation, the Wireless video receiver mentioned before, and the DVD player.

My TiVo has the home media option allowing me to play music and look at photos from all the PCs in my house. TRY TO TOP THAT...lol...
All I want now is for TiVo to let me send video to/from my PC. But I good for now.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:26 PM Jvert

Jeez, I agree that Tivo's are more stable then media center and that alone should win the race but your comparing a $2000 media center with a dvd burner vs a $300 tivo without even a dvd player. Media centers are easily down to $1000 with dvd burning and playback. Your problem with the DVD widescreen wasn't your media center, it was your resolution. Change your pc resolution to a wide screen format 1024x728 and try it again. I agree with your result but I think you were still biased, even if unintentional.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:27 PM Doug

It's funny so many people are having issues with XP MCE. I have built 2 of these boxes and have never had a single issue with them. No lockups, no problems whatsoever. The TV doesn't freeze, the audio doesn't get weird. The picture doesn't go out. The only possible thing that may seem weird is that if it is updating guide date, the picture may slow down for a brief 10-15 seconds. This I have only seen twice in almost a year. I think the problem might be with these HP branded boxes people are getting. Crappy HP quality is giving XP MCE the OS a bad name.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:31 PM Alex Raiano

Thanks for the review! I've considered getting a MCE box however; after this review I think I am going to stick with my TiVo :).

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 12:34 PM Eric G. Harrison

Hey Jvert!

Keep in mind I wasn't comparing feature sets or anything like that. In that case, the MCE clearly wins. I was looking at stability more than anything else. Unfortunately, the HP is much less stable than the TiVo ever was. Perhaps Doug is on to something - maybe it's HP hardware simply being crap!

As for the resolution problem - I spent a lot of time on that, including creating a custom screen driver using a tool (whose name I have forgotten) in an effort to fix it. No luck. Given that the machine was configured to know that I had a widescreen display, you'd think that it would map the dvd image to use it correctly. I'm not the only person who encountered this problem, but I don't have the links to all the places I looked into while researching a solution for it.

# Windows Media Center install 7/7/2004 2:23 PM cjsuperfly's badminton weblog

# Windows Media Center install 7/7/2004 2:27 PM cjsuperfly's badminton weblog

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 2:39 PM jaxett

I built a MCE 2004 PC a month ago for myself and one for a friend of mine. It works amazingly well. No sputters, no freezes, nothing like that. I have two friends that did buy a HP MCE and they have had no issues. I built my friend's MCE for about $500 and it works wonders. I wouldnt ever waste my money on a Tivo. Subscription fees!, give me a break, they are pulling right from Microsoft's business model, I don't think so. I wouldnt recommend a MCE for my grandma but then again I wouldnt ask her to setup a Tivo either. I am sorry that HP model of MCE was unstable but all those who are wanting to build a MCE themselves, do it...do it. You dont need to be a on MSDN to get a copy of MCE either.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 3:13 PM MegaZone

Remember that there are options for TiVO too - Toshiba has a TiVo/DVD Player, which was recently onsale for under $200. That's an 80GB TiVo and a nice Progressive Scan DVD deck.

Pioneer has the more expensive TiVo/DVD-RW decks - the 80GB DVR-810H and 120GB Elite DVR-57H. Burn your shows to DVD on the unit. I own an 810H - paid ~$700 for it last Xmas season. Now Toshiba has two new TiVo DVD-RW units coming out with more features (like a DV input) for MSRP of $599 for 120GB and $699 for 160GB. Due in August, and they'll be available for less than MSRP like everything else.

Now Home Media Option is included in the service, so you have MP3 playback, photo viewing, online scheduling - and if you have multiple units, sharing shows between them.

And late in the year TiVo is supposed to release TiVo To Go to move content to PCs, etc.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 4:44 PM Big Bad Brett

Check out SageTV. $60 bucks gets you the whole system, free schedule, and add as many encdoder cards as you'd like (USB or Internal). I'm running 4 encoder cards and it hasn't crashed a single time.

Word.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 5:52 PM Keith

I have a couple of Tivo's and a couple of MCE machines that I built myself. My experience is that my Tivo's are more reliable and the recording quality is much higher than my MCE machines. MCE machines are definitely more flexible (especially once I bought a Gyration Keyboard and mouse to go with them).

The available TV Tuner cards for PC's aren't great (I have PVR-250's). The quality is acceptable for most things, but I watch sports on my Tivo, because video quality seems to matter more with football and basketball.

Streaming video to NTFS causes the file sytem to fragment rather quickly. I bought a copy of Perfect Disk to resolve that, but that cause other problems. I believe that some of the stalling issues I'm seeing are directly caused by my NTFS drive being severely fragmented. The defrager that comes with MCE doesn't work well on defrag file systems with large files. Things seem to get better (for awhile) when I defragment the file system with Perfect Disk. But leaving Perfect Disk defragmenting in the background caused problems, so I only allow defragmenting to happen when I manually started and I know there will be no recording for several hours.

I think MCE could be much better at handling music collections. Frankly it sucks (Windows Media Player isn’t any better). I have to drop into MusicMatch to build play lists or to rip my music – I’d strongly prefer to stay in MCE (are you listening Microsoft). I have no idea how Tivo handles music since I only have Series 1 Tivos.

# What does the Scoble Slashdot effect look like? 7/7/2004 8:13 PM Pretty stupid for a smart guy...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 7:42 PM w

If you're looking at MCE as a solution for DVD burning of tv shows, keep looking. I tried out Sonic PrimeTime and it pretty much sucks. If your show is too big to fit on one dvd -- too bad. And no ability to edit commercials either.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 7:51 PM a boy name fred

I love this idea of media convergence in the wireless era!

I too would expect that Apple could couple the power of Unix in OS X and their savy for easy to use multimedia toys (itunes, quicktime, imovie, et al) to create a top class Media center....or would it be the digital hub 2.0?

At this time I have decide to give up TV, except for live sports and a few DVD movies. I guess I have just saved myself between $300-$3000 on hardware : )

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/7/2004 10:24 PM rsaunders

I'll have to agree with doug, the only reason anyone would have trouble with the microsoft software is because they're running a crap machine. hp and many other manufacturers build pcs out of stock crap parts, and thus the problem. Stick to building your own PC and your problem will be no doubt solved. This seems to be true of most microsoft software...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/8/2004 6:58 AM tivster

People complaining about sub fees on TiVo vs. media center have no clue. Ever compare the cost of electricty between a TiVo and a PC that's fired up? TiVo eats about $2-3/month of electricity. PC eats anywhere from $15-30/month (depending on local rates)

FYI: I work at TiVo, that's why we use "dime store h/w" :), the apps group always wants to move to faster h/w, but they ignore the electric bill.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/8/2004 7:57 AM vodguy

jaxett indicated that you don't need MSDN to get MCE OS. How else can this OS be acquired? I have not seen it available through retail channels.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/8/2004 8:45 AM Eric G. Harrison

vodguy - I was going to ask Jaxett the same thing! I'm guessing that it can be 'found' on the Internet. No thanks! Besides, I have MDSN - I can get it if I want it.

The thing was, at the time that we bought the HP MCE system, I had thought about building the system and using the MSDN licensed version of XP MCE to drive it, but I decided I didn't want to spend the time dealing with the inevitable troubleshooting! That worked out real well... :(

Tivster - the 'dime store hardware' comment wasn't meant to insult TiVo, but rather highlight the efficiency of the TiVo operating system and applications as compared to MS's. Hope no one was insulted!

As for power consumption, well, once you get into 'bigger' home theater systems, I don't think most people care to be honest. If you're hooking it to a plasma display, the $5 per month difference in electricity won't be a deal breaker - and you do get a lot more functionality - so once again it's not a fair comparison.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/8/2004 9:33 AM vodguy

One thing I'm interested in from this group. What are your opinions on the "Online Spotlight" functionality in the MCE PC? Have you been using it? Have you been renting movies, purchasing music from Napster, etc? If so, what do you think about the quality, convenience, pricing, etc?

Thanks

# RE: TiVo versus Media Center 7/8/2004 1:16 PM Zaphod's BigBlog(tm)

# Windows Media Center Edition vs TiVO - What's Better? 7/11/2004 1:52 PM eHomeUpgrade

PVRblog has posted an interesting article with links to sites arguing the challenges and opportunities of both Windows Media Center Edition and TiVo to see which platform really comes out on top. In our opinion, it's like comparing apples and oranges, but many people connect the two for their underlying media functionality. Matt sums it up the story by saying, "I think that's the bottom line to all of this talk. If owners want to burn stuff to DVD or watch shows on their laptop while traveling, it's probably worth using MCE or MythTV, even though it costs more and...

# PVR Futures 7/12/2004 2:52 PM fahrbotz.com

Summations from a couple of reviews comparing TiVo and Windows Media Center: "So, comparing the $2000 HP Media Center PC versus the $300 TiVo, what do I recommend? Stick with the TiVo. Despite having dime store hardware, the TiVo generally is more reliable, easier to use, and frequently more responsive than the PC" "The extra functionality comes at a cost, though: MCE machines are much more expensive than TiVo units. The ultimate test is whether I'd buy one with my own money. The answer, for now, is no, but it's also true that I'm not buying the HDTiVo I've been...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/13/2004 9:52 AM sagetv user

I'd highly recommend SageTV verse MCE. It's much more robust and customizable and can use any existing PC over 600 mhz! Check it out at www.sage.tv.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/13/2004 10:05 AM Eric G. Harrison

Thanks for the recommendation of Sage TV. It looks pretty interesting. When I get some time (ha!) I'll take a closer look at it.

# PVR solutions 7/15/2004 8:52 PM Lockergnome's Tech News Watch

A great look at the advantages and disadvantages of going with different PVR solutions. While there is no question that TiVo has some features that are difficult to ignore, Windows Media Center has options that so handy they might just blow your mind....

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/16/2004 7:58 AM TiVo guys wishes for ReplayTV

Great great great...I love TiVo, but the fucntionality of ReplayTV has me thinking I made a mistake.
Built in ethernet, and if you are willing to hack the X-Box with the media thing you can actually stream from replay onto the X-Box making the X-Box a remote viewer (not recorder).
I also hear the ReplayTV can send shows to other units over the internet.
How cool is that?

Here is info from kevinrose.com

Xbox Media Center
Today on The Screen Savers...

Turn your Xbox into a media center with XBMC. What is XBMC?

XboxMediaCenter is a free open source (GPL) multimedia player for the Xbox™ from Microsoft. Currently XboxMediaCenter can be used to play/view most popular video/audio/picture formats such as MPEG-1/2/4, DivX, XviD, MP3, AAC, JPG, GIF plus many more less known formats directly from a CD/DVD in Xbox DVD-ROM drive or of the Xbox harddrive, XBMC can also play files from a PC over a local network and even stream media streams directly from the internet. XBMC has playlist and slideshow functions, a weather forecast and many audio visualizations. All these features enable the Xbox™ running XboxMediaCenter to fully function as a multimedia jukebox.
Links you need:
Xbox Media Center (official site)
Xbox-Scene (great tutorials)

+krose

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/16/2004 9:16 AM jerryg

I use Beyond TV3 from http://www.snapstream.com/

I love this software. Favorite feature: Setup remote recordings from a webpage.

FREE demo.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/16/2004 1:10 PM Eric G. Harrison

Thanks for the comments everyone! Even if I don't reply to you, I am reading every one!

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/17/2004 5:39 PM Miguel Castro

I think most of Tivo's success comes from the fact that they focused on one thing and stuck with that one thing - and they do it very well. The multimedia capability of the series 2 is nice but you know what, it's not crucial. I have a Directivo (Tivo/DirectTV built-in) and I would never have anything else. It does not offer multimedia capability and I really don't care. I'm about to purchase the Pinacle multimedia box which interfaces your home theater with your network and gives you the same functionality. I have most of my CDs ripped to one of my servers so I'll end up with the same functionality the MCE PC gives you. My Tivo is my primary tuner (2 in fact) and it does exactly what I bought it for - PVR and Satellite accessing (and I don't deal with IR blasters). This August I am giving myself a birthday present - HD TIVO!!! In fact I am buying an HD VCR also (and maybe even a DVD writer for the home theater system - hey why not while I'm on a roll). Eric, great job on the review and I couldn't agree with you more. You know me, I'm one of the first out the door to get new technologies and you know that as a .NET developer I'm very pro-Microsoft, but I suspected they would not get this quite right [just yet]. It kinda reminds me of the Money vs Quicken war. Intuit also stuck with one genre of software and has become the best in the market where not even MS (who has attempted to purchase Intuit more than once) can topple them over. Tivo ROCKS!!!
By the way: you are not an 'average size' american guy (as one of your first feedbacks says) - everyone listen up!! He has a serious addiction to MacDonalds.
Adios.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/17/2004 10:16 PM Eric G. Harrison

Miguel, you have a strange definition of 'serious addiction'. I'd say once a month is not a serious addiction.

You may be thinking of the 'old' Eric, which use to eat at McD's a lot. Unfortunately, you appear to be working with old data.

Regardless, this doesn't change the fact that the XBox remote control doesn't fit 'normal' hands. Lots of people agree.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/29/2004 4:06 PM hookedonGateway

Hello all: First off, my hats off to the author for the excellent review. My wife and I fell in love with the gateway 610 MCE. We'd love to have it in our kitchen. Problem is, Gateway no longer offers it on their site. I read about stability issues. Anyone knows if it's coming back better/stronger/more reliable with MCE 2005???

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/30/2004 7:00 AM Eric G. Harrison

Hey hookedonGateway!

I don't know if Gateway is bringing back a model like the 610 - Gateway is pulling out of the home entertainment market, and they might consider that product part of it.

On the other hand, Sony has some awfully nice designs that are like the 610. Check them out when you get a chance!

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 7/31/2004 7:09 PM Black Bird

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/msn-tv-broadband-high-speed-web-tv-018343.php http://www.twice.com/article/CA439031.html?display=Breaking+News

Has anyone looked at the new msntv2 media device coming out in oct. To me this looks like an interesting STB with hints of it being both a windows MCE and IPTV device. With msntv adding a USB HD it could be a tivo-like thingie...? Don't know much about these types of devices and was wondering what others thought about it.

Don't jump to any conclusions because of the name...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 8/10/2004 8:47 PM Poker

For additional information about this and other Tivo things check out tivoblog.com

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 8/30/2004 12:31 PM Tommy

MSNTV2 will not have the ability to record TV shows off air or have dedicated IPTV capabilities. I will allow you to share photos, music, and movies from you desktop PC to your PC. I'm in the process of getting the MSNTV2 Enthusiasts site setup and will have more detailed information after launch in October.

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 9/9/2004 1:38 PM Doc Z

I'm at a loss here with the curent information I'm geting about the MSNTV-2 device. I've been a dedicated WebTv user for years, and love the unit all except that MSN will not update our media player or Real Audio.
The new unit claims to work as a stand alone unit with limited memory, but all that is being talked about is connecting it to a PC in another room, to share photos and music and movies stored on that PC's hard drive.
Well excuse me, but if I had a PC, why would I not just get an advanced graphics card and connect the PC up to the home theater direct?
The truth is, most of us who use the MSNTV service don't want a PC, and the problems that go along with owning a PC.
It's also sad that Microsoft feels it has to keep the details and capabilities of the new unit secret. We know that AIFF, AV, WAV, and WMA audio files are supported as well as ASF, MPEG and WMV video, BUT WHAT ABOUT STREAMING REAL AUDIO Version 4 and G2?

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 9/10/2004 10:37 AM Eric G. Harrison

Doc,
I think what you're talking about is the Media Center Extender. These will be devices will take content (video, music, pictures, recorded TV) and make it available on other TV's throughout the house. In our example, the Media Center PC is in the living room home theater, but it would be nice to be able to watch recorded tv in the bedroom too (or just play music).

I'm not familiar with the MSNTV product, but MS is not going to go out of their way to support Real's products. It's just one of those ugly facts. :(

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 11/26/2004 10:43 AM Spotmark

I've been using MCE 2005 for about a month now, and I wouldn't part with it. Recording is simple, and I've had no problems with either scheduling or playback. The tv it's connected to is a Sony 48" rear projection, and the picture is fine. Swapping from monitor to tv is as easy as pressing alt + f5. I hear that Tivo is going to start having advertising. Add to that, that you don't have to pay a subsciption fee with the Media Center, and it makes Media Center that much more attractive. Being able to burn your shows to dvd is the icing on the cake.

# The Wachowski brothers plagurized the Matrix?! 12/6/2004 9:35 PM Pretty stupid for a smart guy...

# The Wachowski brothers 12/6/2004 9:39 PM Pretty stupid for a smart guy...

# re: TiVo versus Media Center Edition PC's - finally! 1/13/2005 10:18 AM Roger

Media Center is the only way. Been using over a month now without a problem. Easy setup easy config. Never going back to tivo.

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